Debt first, kids later?

Last Saturday, Tim and I went to finally meet the newest addition to our friends' family. His name is Eli, he's 4 months old and absolutely adorable.


When we arrived, though, we were shocked to find that our friends' friends, who we'd met on several occasions, had their own little, 7-week old bundle of joy. Also seriously adorable.


Tim admired the kids, and we got to catch up with two other friends we hadn't seen in months. I spent a lot of time trying to squelch girly noises and hit snooze on my biological clock. (I actually remarked, as we were leaving, that it would have been nice if the boys had been a little fussier, so I could feel better about having decided to wait for kids.)


The thing is... Tim and I definitely want a kid. But not right now. First of all, we both agreed that we wanted some time as husband and wife before jumping in to parenthood. Also, we want to have gotten rid of our credit card debt.


At one point during the get-together, the father of the 7-week-old asked if my biological clock was ticking. I explained our philosophy about debt. Later, we ended up repeating it for his wife. The father laughed and said, "In other words, they'll never have a kid."


Ouch.


There was a pause, and I smiled graciously and explained that we were well on our way to paying off our debt. It was simply taking longer because Tim couldn't work and I can't earn a lot by working part-time.


It was all chuckled away and clearly he meant no harm by it, but I have to wonder about the age-old wisdom that you can never truly afford kids. I've had this argument with a few people, and frankly I find these attitudes terrifying.


Obviously, accidents happen. And if Tim and I were to find ourselves as impending parents, we'd figure it out somehow. But we also try to be careful so that we don't have to struggle any more than we already do.


So, by and large, I guess I am simply stumped as to why people are so laissez-faire about the idea that you should create a whole new large financial strain on your budget before you're out of the bulk of your debt. (Of course, children are far more than a financial burden -- or a tax write-off as we all like to joke -- but the fact remains that the lil buggers are expensive!)


Perhaps it's only because we're already low-income people, but Tim and I don't want to equate parenthood with severe financial distress. We don't want to add to existing credit card debt and then wonder how and when we'll ever be able to get that number down.


For me, the jury is still out on whether you can ever, truly, afford kids. My non-parent attitude is hell yes. People do it every day. I'm not saying you can live as lavishly as before, still I know that there are couples like Eli's parents who can even make the choice to go down to a single income. (To be fair, Eli's dad recently got an excellent position in a large, stable tech company; and that was after being given a large severance package by his old firm.)


I had this argument back at age 21, when a friend announced she and her new husband would be trying to have a kid within the next year. They both came from big families, both with parents who started young. So they both felt it would be "weird" to hit 23 or 24 without having a kid. I should mention that, at this point, she was working as a receptionist in a car dealership while her husband pursued his PhD.


Of course, she is and was a frugal gal, so they made it work. At least, as far as I know. We've fallen out of contact, by and large. I know that, a couple of years ago, he got his degree. At least initially, though, most non-teachers have to do a year or two of low-paying work to get any real credentials. I'm sure, too, that having a wife and child certainly helped his financial aid package. Still, I just don't understand the desire to start a family amid that much debt.


Perhaps it's just that I was raised very middle-class, with parents who were financially comfortable. Perhaps it's because so many people on my mom's side of the family have kids young, then spend the next 18 years (or more) struggling to pay for everything. Or perhaps I'm simply being practical. Whatever the reason, I can't picture having a kid while we owe thousands of dollars.


Obviously, Tim and I are a special case, since our earning potential is probably lower than most people's. In other words, being overly cautious will probably save us, financially.


But what about a sterotypical couple? Am I being too idealistic about finances and kids? Do you think anyone can ever truly afford a child? Has anyone made $10,000+ of debt and kids work, without a lot of strain and stress?


(And, on a completely different note, the cutest onesie ever? Eli's black, cotton number, with a iPod on it with the words "iPooped" on the screen.)

Families: The ties that bind (and gag)

My apologies to Ms. Bombeck for subverting her book title. But I cannot think of any title even half as apt as that one. Let me just say: This trip is turning out to be emotionally exhausting!


First there was the whole to-do yesterday. Today, I was less weepy. Partly, I think, because my blood sugar wasn't at basement level. But also because I had to keep busy with work. Of course, there's also that thing about slowly accepting upsetting facts/situations.


Today, though, was full of an entirely different set of painful feelings. Tim and his dad, Marc, had a brief spat. Tim went to the bedroom to calm down and avoid his dad, who had snapped at him without much provocation. His dad sat on the couch and grumbled.


Frankly, I was sick of the whole process. Tim feels like Marc always takes Matt's side. (Tim's closer to his mom, Matt's closer to his dad. Not uncommon, but it does have its effects.) Tim will get frustrated when he thinks his dad is protecting Matt and never listening/caring about Tim's side of things. His dad gets frustrated that Tim is always on Matt's case (even if most people could see why).


I get the impression that Tim's tough-guy act fools Marc into believing that nothing he says really has any effect on Tim. Incredibly untrue. But, if you think that nothing you say really affects someone, you're apt to be extra mean. That just further convinces Tim that his dad only really cares about Matt. And so the process speeds onward.


Maybe it's just being a relative outsider (no pun intended) but, to me, the major problem seemed clear: Marc just didn't know how much his actions and words hurt Tim. Like I said, Tim is great at the tough-guy routine. But deep down, there is a part of him that still aches for his dad's explicit approaval.


So I told him that his words really did impact Tim more than he might think. That when he snapped or otherwise reacted, it made it really easy for Tim to think he was always siding with Matt.


This led to something between a discussion and an argument. I was trying to stick up for my husband while still acknowledging that this was their house to do with as they pleased. It's not technically any of our business. Right up until they call us and complain about all that's going wrong and stressing them out about Matt and his his girlfriend du jour.


Tim joined in the conversation. He was pretty blunt about how his dad's actions made him feel. The words "second-class son" were uttered. I almost felt sorry for Marc, who seemed really taken aback by all this. I think he had honestly been oblivious to most of this problem. He seemed pretty genuinely bewildered, at any rate.


There was definitely some tense moments. Like when we pointed out just how ridiculous it was that they kept taking Matt back. Marc countered with all the things he'd done for Tim. All of which, we pointed out, were several years ago. Tim had grown up and was trying to be responsible. Matt was happy to live off them.


At one point, Tim started packing up our things and declared we were leaving. His dad asked him not to go. That, I thought, was big. Maybe not as big as Tim would have liked, but it was a good start.


Even so, there was still a lot of back and forth. A lot of offense/defense. A good chunk of denial. A very different take on things, depending whose side you looked at. The basics of any family argument that has its roots in decades of keeping score.


I think the basic problem is that Marc is the kind of guy who thinks love is shown in grand gestures. Tim, like me, is all about the day-to-day stuff. So when Marc helped Tim out over time, he thought he was making his love clear. But Marc failed to see that inaction can be a gesture itself, such as well Matt keeps getting his way.


The whole thing just sort of petered out, after awhile. We all headed for rooms to take a breather. After about 20 minutes, dinner was ready. Marc was lying down. Tim's stomach gets pretty upset during/after arguments. I got him to take a Tums and said we could always get food later.


So dinner was just the three females: me, Nadine and the 20-year-old. (Let's call her A from now on, for brevity's sake.) Good food, weird ambience. Nadine and I just didn't discuss the huge debacle that had taken place. A had been on the phone at the time and apparently missed the whole thing. Even after Tim joined us mid-meal, no one referred to the argument.


After dinner, Tim and I left for a couple of hours. We got to bond with Tim's "cousin" Patty. (Her mom is Tim's mom childhood friend, so Tim has an "Aunt" Judy, whose daughters are Tim's "cousins.") It was fun, and I wasn't as bad at pool as I'd remembered. Still a long way from good. But not completely terrible, either.


When we got home, Marc had resumed his normal place on the couch watching TV. We headed for the room, where an envelope had been taped to the door. Marc had written us a note. It was actually pretty touching. Basically that he's sorry that we feel the way we do, and it's just that he's not good at expressing feelings. But that he was very proud of Tim and proud at how well we take care of each other. And that he would try to do better in the future.


Like I said, it's not as big as Tim might have wanted. But it's a start.


He also gave us some Regal movie tickets that he'd gotten while he was a contract worker at Boeing, and instructed us to go see the new Transformers movie. Which was pretty sweet, overall.


So that was our day. I hope tomorrow is a little simpler. I'm not sure I can take anymore meaningful exchanges.


Or, for that matter, revelations about Matt's new girlfriend. While I'm trying not to dislike her just because of the circumstances (which she had little to no part in), she's not making it very easy otherwise.


She's very, very young. And she chides Marc with wildly inappropriate, laughing remarks about kicking his ass when he's a smart-aleck. I guess what's even weirder is that it's almost a creepy flirtation thing. Like when those boys at school like a girl and so give her hell all the time. Very unsettling.


I also found a very interesting fact out: She has $5,731 in the bank. Before you go thinking I'm super sleuth material, I passed by while she was on the phone to her bank. She repeated that number pretty clearly. Apparently her roommate has been opening her mail. So I think she was checking her balances and making sure no accounts had been opened/linked to.


The actual amount of money isn't the issue -- just the fact that she has monetary assets. See, she told Nadine and Marc that the aforementioned roommate had stolen $180 cash while she was in the hospital. So she couldn't get down here to Sumner. I guess she doesn't fully understand how banks work.


Oh, and she regaled us with tales about the mistreatment of her childhood cat. Apparently she tied firecrackers to its tail. Another time, she stuffed it in a barrel with something. I think it was more firecrackers. But the real treat was the last act. She (well, she said, "we" but didn't elaborate) put it in a microwave and turned the device on. They actually killed it this way. She laughed and said, "That's when we had to get rid of the microwave.... I hate cats."


Did I mention that we were all still sitting at the dinner table? We had finished eating but still... Up to that point, I was appalled but had just made slightly snarky observations that I don't think she even heard like, "I take it you're more of a dog person." But after the microwave thing, I just sort of stared.


I probably should have said something about how awful it was. Instead, I just kept thinking of all those crime dramas I've watched that refer to torturing small animals. You'd be amazed how many of them find ways to point out that it's a good indicator of sociopathy. So I just sat there wondering if they had to torture any and all small animals available, or if they could be just very concentrated on one kind. (She's very sweet and loving with the dogs in the house.)


I also wondered how it came to be that this girl has brought three children into the world. Especially since she still has at least partial custody of two of them.


Ah, family!

Oh, hello Mr. Elephant! How long have you been in the room?

It's 11:34 p.m. Sunday night and I'm holing up in the guest bedroom at my in-laws' place. We came down for the 4th of July and are staying on through Tim's mom's birthday.


So, why am I holed up, you ask? (Well, you should have, anyway.)


I think it has something to do with the fact that the other bedroom is currently housing a pregnant 20 year old carrying what is purported to be Tim's niece or nephew. Oh, did I mention she already has three kids?


Tim and I expect Matt to screw up. He's been an addict since he was 10. He went into rehab at 12. (And, the next day, started using drugs again.) He went to prison and got his first strike only about a year and a half ago. He was let out on probation, which he then violated by not only using but (as we discovered later) selling drugs.


But, being the cunning fellow he is, Matt went straight from the UA that he was about to flunk and into his parole officer's office, saying he wasn't handling the pressure of being outside well and that he thought he needed to go to rehab. That's the only thing that kept him from being sent back to prison.


Instead, the officer spent about three months trying to find Matt a bed in a rehab facility. His parents were really stoked about the rehab center. It sounded great. Except that the state decided it would only pay for 30 days of treatment. After that, it said, everyone could just see how it goes.


So, anyway, that's a (very) brief recap of Matt's life. It's barely skimming the surface of his ridiculous life. I could rant at length (and am tempted to) about the many ways he's screwed people over, but this isn't really the point of the article. So for now let's just say that, like most addicts, he uses people when he needs them and otherwise treats them like dirt. And, like most addicts, he has a good core of family and friends who continually excuse his behavior and forgive him over and over.


Given all this background, we were understandably blown away when a friend decided to catch us up on current events. I think she found it funny that we were so out of the loop. I got that from the subtle way she cracked up and even nudged her husband to say she couldn't believe we didn't know.


Frankly, neither of us was surprised that Tim's parents didn't tell us. They probably knew how we'd react. Which is with horror and grim, Pandora-like predictions.


What did surprise me, though I don't know why, was just how quickly this friend defended it as an okay thing. There was:

• "Maybe this will make him straighten up and fly right finally" Yes, because what a recovering addict truly needs is the added stress of financially supporting a child.

• "Actually, he's really good with kids." Uh, yeah because he's their friggin' PLAYMATE!

• "Well, he watches my kids." Hey, I was a good babysitter at age 12. Does that mean I was ready to be a mom?!

• "Well, he's almost 30 now, so if he wants to start a family, he'd better hurry up and do it." Gee, thanks. Did I mention my 31st birthday is coming up next month?

Whatever. We shook it off. And decided not to bother confronting Tim's parents. It wasn't worth it. But then, today, I was in the living room playing around on the web, while Nadine talked to the girl on the phone. Not quietly. And asked several questions that made it obvious the girl was pregnant. (I mean, I'm pretty good at reading between the lines, but it's also made easier by questions like, "So did the doctors let you know about the pregnancy? Oh, okay. Did they tell you how far along you are?")


So when Tim woke up, I told him what I heard and kind of laughed about just how bad his parents are at keeping secrets. On our way in to take a shower, Tim asked them if they were ever going to tell us that Matt got a girl pregnant. His mom said that they only just found out for sure that morning. Apparently, she announced her pregnancy to Matt and his parents after taking a home pregnancy test. But she didn't bother to get it confirmed by, say, a doctor in the past week or two since then. At least until she had passed out during a heat wave from dehydration. So she was already in the hospital.


At any rate, Tim's mom insisted that she had just then found out for sure. Tim shook his head and excused himself to use the bathroom. Which left me standing around with his mom. She proceeded to talk about the baseball game that was on. And what we were going to do that day. And maybe a couple other things. It was hard to really listen, what with my brain screaming, "Why aren't we talking about this at all?!"


So, yeah, that was the last time his mom mentioned it. Apparently, Tim got his dad to talk about it a little while they ran an errand. But it wasn't really information that was volunteered.


I really thought Nadine would be thrilled to have a grandchild. She just seems so ready to be a grandma. So I'm not sure if she's not shouting it from the rooftops because even she recognizes what a screwed up situation this is, or because she knows we're not exactly thrilled.


Either way, it was just strange how the subject was dropped. I mean, there were things that we just didn't talk about in our family. But it's been rare that something so obvious, so big wasn't talked about. The whole thing was practically palpable. But no one discussed it.


Right about now, I'm close to either packing up and leaving (I'll explain why in another post) or leaving some peanuts out for the elephant in the room. He looks kind of hungry.